[00:18]
MR: So we’re just going to start out – how does it feel to be back on campus?
EH: A little nostalgic. Like I said when we were walking in, to see all the changes. The campus
has expanded geographically from when I was here. It’s very different.
MR: Did you notice changes in different buildings and that type of thing?
EH: Only in the sense that the campus has spread out. I didn’t walk enough of the campus to see
how much has changed.
MR: And you mentioned you saw more students walking around.
EH: Right.
MR: All right. So where are you from originally?
EH: I’m originally from Los Angeles.
MR: And why did you choose Scripps?
EH: Uhh, actually, I came out for an interview and I was very impressed.
MR: Why were you impressed?
EH: The lady, her name, I think, was Marilyn Bloom, she was [an] admissions officer and she
indicated an interest in me and she described the humanities program. And that just sounded like
something I’d like – such a broad view of humanities.
MR: So, the humanities program. Can you describe what that was like?
EH: Well, when I was here, we had classes, as I recall, five days a week. And they were in
different disciplines. It was taught by four or five professors. I remember we had religion, art,
literature, history, there may have been one more; I don’t recall. And then each semester, in
addition to having that every morning, the freshmen would have certain classes, and sophomore
and junior, and senior would have different – it would progress in the history. We would start
with ancient history as freshmen and move up to the current time by the time you become a
senior. But in addition to classes where you entire class had the classes in Balch Hall – you
come for those lectures four or five times a week – you’d then have - break into smaller groups
in seminars. So each semester you would have two seminars. So say the first semester you
might have an art seminar and a literature one. The next semester I might have history and
religion so that you’d have the macro picture by going to the lecture and then the more in depth
picture of each of the subjects in the seminars, which were fairly small.
MR: That’s really interesting. Did you have a favorite class?
EH: Uhh, well I eventually really liked history but by then I’d already declared a poly-sci major.
[Laughs] And I wasn’t about to change. But I just liked the way it was taught.
MR: Was political science a popular major when you were here?
EH: I don’t think that much. I don’t know. Am I allowed to ask you questions?
MR: Um, well, we’d like you to do most of the talking, but you can ask me questions if you’d
like.
EH: Is there a poly-sci major now on campus?
MR: Yes.
EH: Ok. When I was here, in ’68 to ’72, there was no poly-sci major. Women who wanted to
major, have certain majors, we actually took most of our courses off-campus. I took a majority
of my classes at CMC because they offered a poly-sci major. And so my classes were there, I
had one in Pomona and I had one in Pitzer, so maybe it wasn’t that popular because Scripps
didn’t meet that need or it could have been simply the size. As we were walking in I mentioned,
you know, the school sounds like it’s doubled in population. My graduating class was 98
women. So I had to go off campus for poly-sci courses but then I had the humanities class with
everybody else here.
MR: So how did the off-campus classes differ from the Scripps classes? Just the environments,
having men in the classes?
EH: Well, mostly men, a few women. It was the huge lectures, but we also had a couple classes
my senior year where there were only five or six of us in the class, which was hard when you
wanted to be absent – you were the only woman in the class.
MR: Did you feel certain pressures because you were the only woman in the class sometimes?
EH: No, not at all.
MR: You felt like professors and the other students, they treated you the same way?
[4:56]
EH: Right, except, are you on grade system now?
MR: Yeah.
EH: Ok. They went through a phase, and I don’t know how long it lasted, but it was definitely
during some of my years at Scripps – I can’t remember – it was like the last three, the last two, or
what, but instead of grades, we had evaluations filled out by each professor and so when the
professors that were off-campus, that weren’t Scripps professors, like I took a Constitutional
Law class over at Pomona, and I took something at the grad school, and at Claremont McKenna,
which was then known [as] Claremont Men. They didn’t know how to fill out these evaluations
and some of them just simply said, “Her grade is –” They may have stopped it because we were
part of that generation, we were starting to apply to professional schools and in a way maybe it
made us stand out, but in a way maybe it made more paperwork for the graduate schools because
when I applied to law school, it’s like, instead of a transcript with, let’s say, ten courses a year,
five each semester with grades, I’d have all these little recommendations. So they were reading
the recommendations in addition to typical recommendation that is prepared for a student
applying to graduate school.
MR: Wow.
EH: That was what made it a little different for the professors trying to teach women from
Scripps.
MR: Did you have a favorite professor?
EH: A couple history professors, that’s why I said, you know, if I had to do it over again, I might
have been a history major.
MR: Ok, well, we’re going to switch gears a little bit. I want to ask you, what were your friends
like at Scripps?
EH: It was a broad range of people. I’d come from – I’d grown up in inner-city LA and if you
know anything about Los Angeles, there’s South Central LA where USC is. That’s a very poor
area. It was a poor area when I grew up and so, for me, it was a little bit of a shock coming out
to Claremont because, you know, I had not had that type of exposures to such different people
and to different races and, you know, religions.
MR: And can you talk a little more about that, about class differences?
EH: Well, it’s a little bit of, you know, what they had in life already was something I would
aspire to. People had cars, I didn’t have cars. I was the kid who would take the bus home to LA
on weekends to see my folks. It was just different, the idea of going abroad was so foreign to
me, junior year abroad, even though, I understand it was not as popular back in ’72 as it is for
your generation now, I mean it’s like most students go abroad. Back then, it just seemed like,
“Oh someone gets to study abroad,” it was just a different world from mine, which had been
more insular. I hadn’t traveled much out of LA at the time, and so, I mean, I made some lasting
friendships including people who I’m still in contact with today.
MR: You also mentioned different races and religions – did you ever feel marginalized as a
minority student?
EH: No, no. There were maybe half a dozen Asian women. I think some from Hawaii, none
from – but you know, not a lot. Look at half a dozen in a class of 100 or so. You know, as we
progress, the class got smaller as people transferred. I don’t know if that’s in proportion to the
number of Asians in the population or not.
MR: Was there any sort of support group or any sort of meeting –
EH: No, no. I think, as I, as the years pass, and the number of minorities increase, I think, I saw
some support groups, but, quite frankly, Asians have never been into, as much, into the group
and “let’s support each other.” It just simply doesn’t happen, I think. I mean, they’re trying it
more and more, I think people are moving in that direction, but I think we’re not – I don’t know
how to put this nicely – we’re not as cliquish as some minority groups are.
MR: Did you feel that there were other minority groups on campus that were cliquish?
EH: Oh yeah, yeah. Definitely. I think the African Americans were. Maybe they felt more
isolated and alienated and maybe they found it harder to mix than I did.
MR: And so were there groups specifically for African American students, do you remember?
EH: I don’t remember.
MR: But do you recall them hanging out together?
EH: Yes, yes, yes. But I think they also integrated. In fact there’s somebody that I’ve seen her
name quite frequently, she’s very active in the alumni association and I think was even once
president of the alumni association.
MR: Oh, do you know her name?
EH: Yeah, Lynn Thompson.
MR: We actually – she was interview earlier today.
EH: Oh, ok! I knew she went to law school like I did but ultimately didn’t practice.
[10:24]
MR: Ok, well on this topic of minority communities, was there a visible gay and lesbian
community when you were at Scripps?
EH: No, not at all. That was just not the generation that was about to come out. [Laughs]
MR: Did you know anybody who identified as –
EH: No. So if there was anybody, I didn’t know they had that sexual orientation.
MR: Um, all right. Let’s see, what did you do on the weekends? Or what did you do for fun
generally?
EH: Well the first couple years I actually went home a lot cause my father passed away shortly
after I started college and I had two younger siblings at home and I had my older brother was in
college on the east coast, so I was the one that kind of went home and helped on weekends. Um,
and eventually when my brother graduated and came back to California, I was able to spend
more time on campus. And you know, I was it the usual, you know, go to the movie downtown
or, you know, to any concert they had here.
MR: Was the difficult for you, feeling like you had family responsibilities?
EH: Yeah, because I felt, you know, I lost out. Everybody comes in as a freshman, you’re all,
you know, pretty much on the same playing field in the sense that you don’t know a lot of people
and so that’s the opportunity for a lot of those friendships to, you know, begin, and, you know,
get stronger. And so a lot of the socializing for that would be on the weekends. I mean you’d
see each other at dinner, but the weekends is when you’d be doing things together.
MR: Did you socialize with people from other campuses?
EH: Umm, no.
MR: So there were no parties?
EH: No, I wasn’t one that, I don’t know if you still have them, we used to have the Cal Tech
Mixers. Ok, we used to do that because, and maybe you’ve heard this from somebody else,
already, because we were all female and Cal Tech, even though I think was probably co-ed, was
virtually all male because, you know, it’s a science-math school. And so there would be mixers
with Cal Tech and also with HMC, which was also co-ed, and we had mixers with CMC, which
was at that time not co-ed.
MR: And was there alcohol at those parties?
EH: Uh, I don’t recall the other parties but I always tell the story about how Scripps really
allowed their students to have alcohol. I don’t know, has that changed?
MR: I would say yes.
EH: Oh, ok. Well –
MR: It varies.
EH: The story is, we would have parties in our dorm, and I lived in Kimberly the entire time, and
they would come over, the guys would come over on our campus because they weren’t allowed
to have alcohol on their campus. I heard the story, I don’t remember it happening, maybe I was
away for the weekend, of some guy walking through – do you know those glass, big glass pains
in the corridor – it used to be the corridor from the entry to Kimberly to Wilbur Hall when it was
a dining room.
MR: Yes, yes.
EH: Ok. I heard a story where some guy walked through some glass there [laughs]. Now it’s a
story, you know, I heard back then, and who knows if it’s true? And, you know, we would have
cheap liquor – what was it called? Red Mountain Wine or something. I don’t know if that still
exists or not [laughs].
MR: So you lived in Kimberly your entire time – did people tend to do that, group in their dorms
and live there for the entire time?
EH: Yeah, we did. At the time, and I don’t know if you know this, but I learned it when I was a
junior, I became what they called “Big Sisters” when the freshmen come in and you help them
during orientation week. I learned that what they did is they would stereotype women into
dorms [laughs]. Do they do that anymore? Do you know?
MR: I don’t think they do that as much. The dorms don’t have as much of, like, their own
individual cultures.
EH: Oh, ok.
MR: So what was the Kimberly stereotype?
EH: The most conservative. And I can’t remember which one was supposed to be the most
liberal, and you’d go over there, and you could smell pot in the other one. Maybe it was – is
there one called Grace?
[15:07]
MR: Uh, yeah. Grace Scripps Clark. They call it Clark now.
EH: Ok. It might have been that one. It was one of the older ones that had that stereotype. And
I know – I heard later there were some changes simply because Kimberly is set up that it’s easier
to go co-ed with the bathrooms being in between the rooms.
MR: So did you feel that you fit that stereotype?
EH: Yeah, I was pretty conservative.
MR: Politically? Or –
EH: No. Just socially. We had all the class officers, [they] were from Kimberly Hall back then.
MR: So. Actually, talking about politics, there was a lot going on in the world at the time. How
much of that do you remember sort of permeating campus culture?
EH: Not a lot. I do remember going on one march. I think it was called “May Day March.” It
was during the Vietnam War. But otherwise, I think the campus seemed pretty a-political.
MR: Did people talk about Vietnam?
EH: Uhh, I have this memory of when - we had, in that generation we had – what was it called?
Lottery, maybe? Where men – birth dates were pulled and you had a certain designation. You
know, if you were number one, you were going to get called up. If you were number 365, the
chances of being pulled into the military and drafted were less. I just remember – my memory is
of a bunch of women sitting around watching those numbers being pulled and thinking of their
loved ones – boyfriends, brothers, whatever, and where they fit into that lottery system. I
remember that much.
MR: Do you know of anybody at the 5Cs who got drafted?
EH: No, I don’t.
MR: But people at the 5Cs knew people who were going to war?
EH: Right, right.
MR: And did that ever – if news came back that somebody had gotten killed – did you hear –
EH: No, I didn’t hear of any of that. I mean back then we had the, I think it was called the
educational deferment so that if you were in school, you could avoid the draft. Cause that’s what
happened to my brother who was two years older than me. But once he got out, he signed up for
the reserves because he had a low number.
MR: All right, well, Title IX was passed right after you graduated. What did you learn about
feminism during your time at Scripps?
EH: I don’t remember anything specifically ever addressed. I mean there’re things that, you
know, I think of later which may actually be things that came to me later as opposed to when I
was actually a student.
MR: So did people talk about women’s rights?
EH: Not that I recall.
MR: So, how did Scripps as a women’s college play into your decision?
EH: Well, a large part of it was it being small. Because I was a fairly shy person at the time and
the thought was I’d probably develop more socially and whatever being in a more nurturing
environment. Smaller classes rather than going to, like, a UC and I’m just one in a huge number.
MR: So the women’s college aspect – it didn’t really have –
EH: You know, not really one way or another especially since, you know, I knew HMC was
across the street one way to the north and to the south was CMC.
MR: So do you think you would have gone to, say, Smith, or another women’s college that
didn’t have the other co-ed schools?
EH: Uh, possibly. I actually applied to one back east.
MR: Oh, which one?
EH: Well, it no longer exists [laughs]. It got merged with Brown. I’m trying to remember what
it was called. I can’t remember the name – it started with a P, that’s all I know, and it got
merged later.
MR: All right, well, let’s see. If people weren’t talking about politics, what were they talking
about on campus?
EH: I have to say, we were necessarily that much into politics and the one thing I noticed – and I
have to say, I wasn’t one of them, I thought, “gee, this is odd.” People were wondering, we
jokingly said they were worried about their MRS. Which you understand?
MR: Their Mrs. degree?
EH: [Laughs] Yes. More than, you know, going out there and being independent. We had a
little tradition in the dorms, which may still exist, where there’s a candle that doesn’t melt and a
ring is put on it and it’s passed around and the girl who’s engaged blows it out. So, you know,
that was just how our generation was. Does that tradition still exist?
[20:28]
MR: [Laughs] No.
EH: [Laughs]
MR: Were a lot of people getting engaged?
EH: Um, yeah, usually by their senior year. I would say, maybe not quite a fourth, but quite a
few.
MR: And what were the attitudes towards dating on campus?
EH: In what sense?
MR: Um, were people dating a lot? How did they feel about – were people open about what they
were doing?
EH: I think they were.
MR: Were people talking about their sex lives?
EH: If they were, not to me [laughs].
MR: Did you feel like people had attitudes about, or, what were people’s attitudes about
premarital sex? Or was that just not –
EH: No, I think there was premarital sex.
MR: And was that judged?
EH: No, I think it was just accepted.
MR: So people had their private lives, it sounds like?
EH: Uh huh. Yeah. Our generation had premarital sex; we just don’t tell your generation about
it [laughs]. My daughter thinks I’m a goody-two-shoes.
MR: And you would disagree with that assessment?
EH: [Laughs]
MR: Did you have a boyfriend while you were on campus?
EH: Yes.
MR: And what school was he from?
EH: He was at CMC.
MR: And how did that turn out?
EH: We broke up when I graduated. He was actually a year behind me. It was, in a way, good.
He was going to be here and I was going away to law school. So, kind of avoided what might
have been a difficult situation.
MR: Were a lot of people getting engaged to people from the other schools?
EH: Uh, actually in my dorm, the engagements seemed to be with either Cal Tech-ers or Harvey
Mudd-ers, for some reason. I don’t know why.
MR: That’s interesting. So I guess I want to talk a little more about campus life. And so, what
were, like, the social forums? Where did people gather on campus?
EH: Well I know we did – do you still have afternoon tea?
MR: Yes.
EH: Ok, yeah. There was always afternoon tea and that was always open to the other campuses.
As far as organized forums, I know, at least politically, because of the poly-sci, over at
Claremont McKenna there were forums that people could go to.
MR: Were did people gather, like, casually? To hang out or do their homework?
EH: Uhh, the dorm or the library.
MR: And so, you mentioned tea. What were other traditions that were in place?
EH: I remember each dorm put on a special Christmas show with a certain theme. Do you still
do that?
MR: No.
EH: Ok.
MR: Could you talk a little bit more about that?
EH: Yeah. [Laughs] I got talked into being a singing waitress and I cannot sing so I was serving
and, you know, barely singing. And so, you know, we would have guests, which would include,
I guess, people like trustee and faculty members. So, um, ours was a Dickens Christmas, as I
recall that year. So each dorm did that every year and we had a candlelight procession
throughout the dorm. And actually, now that I remember, it was, I think, it was just before we
went home for Christmas vacation, the faculty would walk through the dorms and serenade us
with Christmas songs.
MR: Did the faculty come into the dorms much at any other parts of the year?
EH: They would come meals, yeah. They would be invited for meals. Let’s see, what else we
had. Oh, another tradition we had when we were – freshmen were here their first week, were
here without the upperclassmen, is that the big sisters would teach them dorm songs and they
didn’t know what was happening. And the next morning we would rouse them and push them
out in the courtyard with their, you know, nightgowns and robes and rollers and whatever. And
the men from Claremont Men’s College at the time would come over and serenade and then
come back later for breakfast and say, “oh you were the one with the pink nightgown and the
such and such curls.” Do they still have that? [Laughs]
[25:30]
MR: [Laughs] No.
EH: Ok [Laughs].
MR: How did you feel about that when you were a first-year?
EH: It didn’t bother me that much. I don’t think I had curlers in my hair. But it was a tradition
we taught the girls. Each dorm, I think, had dorm songs. And, let’s see, we decorated the tree
every year. You know, the dorm – each dorm had a tree to decorate. I remember there was one
dean of students – Marjorie Downing? I can’t remember her name. Anyway. She thought we
weren’t reading serious enough material so out of her own pocket she bought the – I think it was
the New York Times subscription for each dorm.
MR: So was there any controversy about having a Christmas show?
EH: No, no. I know where you’re coming from, no there wasn’t at all.
MR: Were most students Christian?
EH: As far as I know. There were a few Jews, but they didn’t say anything.
MR: Do you think they didn’t say anything because they didn’t have a problem with it or do you
think they just would have not felt comfortable?
EH: I think people more, become more vocal about what they disagree with, while 40 years ago
you just accepted that’s just how things are.
MR: So what particular rules were in place that you remember?
EH: Oh, well there was one that I understand is no longer in effect. We didn’t have phones in
our rooms and of course it was way before cell phones. All we had was like a bank of phones at
the end of the hallway, maybe four lines. So, well, in addition we each had to take turns
manning the reception, the desk and answer the phones. You still do that?
MR: No.
EH: Ok. Well, anyway, a phone call would come in and whoever was on the desk would answer
it and we had an intercom system so we would first buzz the person’s room, and if they weren’t
there, then we’d do two loud rings, so, you know, ring throughout the hall. And that would mean
answer the intercom if you’re outside of your room to find out if a call was for you. And then
you’d go to the bank of phones and take the call. If, after the second ring, let’s see what else we
had – we had three rings, which was all-dorm announcements, so you had to open the intercom
button on each of the rooms and you had four rings, which means: man in the hallway. In other
words, get decent! [Laughs] So that was one tradition. Oh, the other thing we had is, we actually
had a curfew. Freshmen had to be in by midnight. You could get parental permission to stay out
past midnight. But, you know, once you were past freshman year there is no limitation on how
late you could stay out.
MR: Did you parental permission to stay out?
EH: That was the year I was still going home a lot so I wasn’t here a lot on the weekends.
MR: And is that how you communicated with your family, by calling them?
EH: Right, mhm.
MR: Did you ever write letters?
EH: No, maybe because I was so close. I mean, physically close to LA and I was going in –
home frequently enough that I didn’t need to have letters.
MR: Were a lot of people going home who lived in the area?
EH: I don’t think so. ‘Cause I saw from your area code you’re from Maryland?
MR: Yeah. Ok, so, you mentioned all the dorms had their own dining halls –
EH: Right.
MR: Did everybody eat at the same time every day?
EH: Right. We had sit-down meals the first, maybe, three years, and then it changed and we had
more of a cafeteria set-up with the hot plates, or whatever you call, and we’d go down at six or
something and, you know, the menu was posted. And I think we had limited ability to have
people from other campuses. Eventually it became where you could go to any campus, which I
think is what it is today. And then once a week we usually had dress-up. After the dress-up
meal, we usually had a dorm meeting.
MR: Did you ever eat in the other Scripps dorms?
[29:53]
EH: No, but I ate at the CMC dorms.
MR: And what was the food like?
EH: Well, I understand most people came to Scripps because we had the better food [laughs]. I
don’t know if that’s still the case. And actually at the very beginning, the weekend food, the
kitchen staff didn’t work, so we had cold cuts and stuff and the women were protesting and then
they started serving steaks on weekends [Laughs]. And we didn’t have all the cutlery we needed
so some parent donated the cutlery for the dorm – the steak knives.
MR: Did you have breakfast and lunch with everybody too?
EH: Yeah. And I remember – talking about breakfast – what we did, we were on an honor
system and I’d be curious if you still have it. When we took our humanities exam, we were
allowed to come back to our dorm and take the exam down in the dining room, which, you know
how close Kimberly is to where Wilbur is, would be cookies and snacks. And then, you know,
we’d return the blue book at the end of the exam period.
MR: Was that system effective?
EH: As far as I know. It was basically honor system, you wouldn’t, you know, supposed to open
those books. It was not an open book test. You just simply got to take your exam in your room.
MR: Did you hear of any instances where people were cheating?
EH: No, I didn’t. I mean, when I graduated it was still ongoing. I don’t know if that ended –
they still have it?
MR: Uh, not for the most part.
EH: Ok.
MR: That’s interesting. So, also academic, for the exams, what type of assignments did you
have?
EH: We usually had to write for each of those seminars, for the humanities I mentioned we
usually had to write at least one paper. And then the exam for the course that everybody took,
the four or five days a week, that another exam. It was written.
MR: So where did you go to do research?
EH: Either at the Scripps library over, is it called Honnold?
MR: Yeah. Did you use – did you talk to the librarians, how did that process go?
EH: As needed.
MR: And, how were – changing topics a little bit – so were there sports programs when you were
here?
EH: Very little. I don’t know, to my knowledge, recollection, I don’t remember any for females.
I remember there were the two men’s schools, CMC and HMC, were in some league, so they
participated in football, whatever. But as far as women’s sports, not that I recall.
MR: And were the sports popular?
EH: Not that much so. I remember, yeah, I mean you could take a tennis class and there was
swimming or something like that but I don’t remember competitive sports for women.
MR: And um, what type of music was popular at the time?
EH: What type of music? I can’t remember.
MR: Or what were you listening to?
EH: Probably a variety, just like I listen to a variety now [laughs]. Uh, 60s… you know, I can’t
remember who was popular back then.
MR: Did you listen to Simon and Garfunkel or Joni Mitchell.
EH: Mhm, mhm. Joan Baez. Bob Dylan. And I listened to classical. I mean I listen to – I don’t
mind a Lady Gaga song nowadays so I have a pretty broad range. It’s hard to say what fell
when.
MR: And also with popular culture, what was the fashion like?
EH: [Laughs] That was another one they joke about. This was a joke I’ve told friends.
Scrippsies to wed, Pitzies to bed. At the time, Pitzer went co-ed I think my junior year. It was
all female. And Pitzer girls supposedly always wore the blue denim shirts, while the Scripps
girls wore the skirts and the knee-high socks. So, there was this stereotype that Scripps overall
was more conservative than the Pitzer girls at the time. Um, so, I mean people wore jeans but I
think it was pretty much, you know, even when you went to class, it was like, “Oh, Professor
Gray, you better wear a skirt to class” because that’s how the professors expectations were too.
MR: Did male and female professors treat students differently?
EH: Um, I can’t think of any. I mean, I remember having, I took a Spanish class where we had
men in it. And the Spanish class was taught here. He seemed to treat everybody the same. And
when I went to the other campuses too.
[35:04]
MR: Was there a lot of apparent inequality between men and women at the time?
EH: Mmm, I don’t think so. I mean, I think the expectations were different from the outside
world, but I don’t think the women felt constrained by them. You know, the thought that women
with a bachelor’s degree back then were, you went into teaching or you became a secretary. It’s
like, “I don’t want to be either” and I think women shared that thought.
MR: So do you think it was different at Scripps than at other places?
EH: Well I have to agree with something I read afterwards that a women’s school, the positive
thing about a women’s school, and it may be different now with your generation, is women did
not feel inhibited about speaking up in class. They didn’t feel shy about showing they might be
smart because, you know, “I don’t want a boy to think I’m smart.” That dynamic did not exist, I
mean, when you’re in an all-girls school. That’s something I read about later and I said, “yeah, I
agree with that assessment.”
MR: Do you think that carried over to your other classes at the other schools?
EH: To some degree, but basically I was a pretty shy kid. Took me a while to get out of my shell
and I think it was after I got out of law school. My personality became more outgoing, I would
say.
MR: So did you always know that you wanted to be a lawyer?
EH: Um, I looked at it intellectually. I liked, when I was reading and the issues, and the
thinking, analytical thinking. And I didn’t know what the opportunities would be. I mean, I
know, someone who’s a friend of mine went to paralegal school and so that was a new thing
back then. So that was an option, paralegal school and I think I applied to the one in the country
but I also applied to law school because I’d take Con Law over at Pomona with a professor that,
actually I subsequently, in the past ten years have met students of his – he taught for so long –
before I retired. And then I took a Con history course at the grad school. And actually, as far
back as high school I had a Con history course. So it was the whole history, political science
type interest that I had. It goes back.
MR: So what did your family think your decision to go to Scripps and then later to go to law
school?
EH: Uh, they were happy with Scripps because it was close by. My brother had gone to the east
coast. As far as law school, I think they thought it was unusual. I know when I came home that
first year my mother said I’d changed because I was much more challenging of her authority so I
think in the long run, at the time it was probably, you know, people usually go into teaching. In
fact they wanted me to become a teacher, and maybe part of it was because they wanted me to, I
said, “I’m not going to.” [Laughs]
MR: So you had that rebellious streak?
EH: Yeah, uh-huh.
MR: So did you end up becoming a lawyer after law school, you practiced law?
EH: Right. Practiced 35 years, just retired in December.
MR: So what type of law did you practice?
EH: About 15 years I did health education and welfare defense. Basically represented the state
of California when it was sued on, like, Medicare programs, AFDC, anything. It could range
from one family saying, “I should have been given benefits” to a class saying, “you’re
calculating the benefits incorrectly” because the law requires that it be calculated in a certain
way. So for the first 15 years I did that and I also did some regulating of health care facilities
where we went after sub-par health care facilities and there, in that row, I was more the
prosecutor as opposed to defending the state’s money as people, welfare people would say,
people on welfare would say, you know, “We think we deserve more.” And then the last 15
years or so – I’m just kind of dividing it up, 15 and 15 doesn’t total 35 – I did defense on – you’d
find this interesting given the school and the questions you’re asking – I defending the state on
sex discrimination and sexual harassment and Americans with Disability Act challenges and I
actually did have a case involving two gay men, so that’s what I did the last 15 years pretty much
of my career.
[40:21]
MR: And how do you feel like Scripps impacted your career?
EH: I think, and I did have to adjust, I think the writing aspect really helps, because, you know,
not every lawyer’s well rounded. You could have a lawyer could go in the courtroom and he’s a
great orator but he may not have the writing skills and it’s good to have a good balance. I mean,
that’s what I found in the last few years is that I’m finding young people don’t have the writing
skills and it’s very frustrating. I supervised for more than ten years and I’m sitting there editing
people who’ve gone through undergrad and law school. So I think the writing skills, you know,
you gotta write a term paper because I know, I say it with my own kids as they were going
through school, depending on the classes they took. My son took more challenging classes, more
APs than my daughter. I found that he was given more written assignments and she was given
less. So her writing skills never developed. So I think what I felt was good at Scripps was the
emphasis on writing. Even though it was the type of writing that I had to adjust once I became a
lawyer. I had to cut out all the flowery stuff. But, you know, that was, I think, important.
MR: Do you feel like any activities you did at Scripps had an impact later? Or actually, first,
what activities did you do?
EH: Well, I was involved in yearbook and I took photos. I wasn’t involved in too many
activities between, you know, with my family responsibilities and just trying to stay on top of
things because, like I mentioned, I came from an inner city school. And it was much more of a
challenge than if I’d come from, like, my kids are coming from a much more wealthy
background and have had more benefits that I did growing up and when I came to Scripps it was
like, “Ok, let’s pull out that dictionary.” So I think I had to spend much more time just trying to
survive than maybe someone who’d come from a wealthier background.
MR: Did many kids from where you grew up go to college or go to the types of colleges –
EH: No. Very few. [Laughs] I’d say five percent of my high school may have gone to college.
Yeah, it was that low.
MR: So why do you think you were in that five percent?
EH: Well, they had in LA Unified what they called a tracking system, which I don’t know if
they’ve gotten rid of or not – my kids didn’t stay in the LA Unified school system for the whole
time – where they’d put you in skilled classes where that’s your skills are really sub-par and they
needed to be worked upon, and a regular classes, or what they called AE, academically enriched,
and at the time they were just starting the AP classes. So I had been put in the AE classes, so,
you know, I had had a lot of writing in high school. So you know I had the one or two term
papers a month and the essay exams. So, you know, that helped me, I think, coming to Scripps
having that background than had I been in a lower track. But still it didn’t compare to somebody
who might have gone to a much better high school where you not only learn in class but you
learn form your peers. I mean I saw that, especially with my son. The type of assignments he
was given, you know, how it would challenge him, just the different teaching method which, in
the inner city, you know, a lot of them, they’re just trying to maintain order.
MR: So do you feel like you learned from your peers at Scripps?
EH: Yes, uh-huh. And that the one class, like I said, I thought maybe I would have wanted to be
a history major was a class where we did analytical analysis and it was the type of, where you
had to defend a paper and you, you know, there was questioning and answering. It was, you
know, sort of like what happens in law school. Yeah, I think definitely it helped.
MR: So did you feel the quality of the intellect was consistent across the campuses?
EH: [pause] Uh, yes I think they required the same thing in classes.
MR: Well, you mentioned you have kids. I was going to ask you if you had a family but you
already answered my question. So what are you doing, you just retired, what are you doing
now?
[45:05]
EH: Well so far I haven’t gotten into any activities [Laughs]. Part of it is, like somebody says,
you have to decompress for six months. And I have to say, I’ve done a lot of traveling this year.
I was counting up the flights; it was a little embarrassing, you know ‘cause this year I have
another trip planned, I will have taken 21 flights, including connecting and internal. So I’ve
been to Europe this year and I’m going again. And I went to Asia and I’ve been visiting friends
in the US. And I’ve been doing a lot of reconnecting. In fact, I just reconnected with two
Scripps that I had lost contact with over the years. Because what you’ll find eventually as you’ll
get involved with your family and your career and you just don’t have the time to reach out to
some friends and your circle of friend might be smaller. So I re-contacted two people that I
hadn’t had contact with in over 20 years and we got together. So that what I’ve been spending
part of this year doing is reconnecting with people like that.
MR: Oh, that’s great. So how old are your kids?
EH: My son’s 28 and my daughter’s 31.
MR: That’s great. Well, is there anything you want to add about Scripps, any favorite story that
you have that you haven’t gotten a chance to tell yet?
EH: Not that I can think of. I’ll probably think of it later [laughs].
MR: Any crazy adventures?
EH: There’s one that I wasn’t present for but I heard about. And I could tell you that one?
MR: Ok.
EH: In fact it’s somebody I worked with – it turned out I actually had two, three colleagues that
went to the Claremont Colleges. And he went to CMC and he tells – he was two, three years
younger, we didn’t cross over at all. So he was telling me where they took red paint and made
footprints all over the campus like a path of footprints. I can’t remember where they were
destined to go, but you know, I do remember that one. Oh, I remember – do you still do the
square dance at the beginning of the year?
MR: No.
EH: Ok. That was something, you might think it’s corny, but all the upperclassmen loved it.
And the advantage of, you could come in a few days early because the freshmen, I think, came in
at least, about a week early, is that they would have a square dance. There’s a big quad, near
Pomona, I don’t know what it’s called, and what would happen is that would be the icebreaker.
You know, we’d say, “ok, you get people down, voluntarily, to square dance.” Then they’d say,
“go up and pick up somebody wearing blue or red,” or, you know, they’d bring everybody
involved and that was something that was very popular. You know, it allowed, us, the women at
Scripps, to meet people at all the campuses. You know, not just the mixers at Harvey Mudd and
CMC. And um, upperclassmen wanted to come back early just so they could go to that dance
[Laughs]. So, that was something I remember.
MR: So, just one last question. So we have the Rose Garden, which has all the murals from all
the different classes. Do you remember which, do you remember your class’s design?
EH: No, not at all. Is that where you go in and there are pillars?
MR: Yeah.
EH: Ok.
MR: Was that an important space while you were on campus?
EH: No, I didn’t go over there.
MR: Did you mostly spend time in your dorm?
EH: Mostly in the dorm or the library, yeah.
MR: Well, unless you have anything else to add –
EH: No.
MR: I think that’s it. Thank you so much for doing this interview.
EH: You’re welcome.
[48:51]
